Meeting of the ARIN Advisory Council - 18 March 2021 [Archived]


Here in the Vault, information is published in its final form and then not changed or updated. As a result, some content, specifically links to other pages and other references, may be out-of-date or no longer available.

via Teleconference


  • Leif Sawyer, Chair (LS)
  • Owen DeLong (OD)
  • Andrew Dul (AD)
  • Gary Giesen (GG)
  • Kat Hunter, Vice Chair (KH)
  • Alyssa Moore (AM)
  • Anita Nikolich (AN)
  • Amy Potter (AP)
  • Joe Provo (JP)
  • Kerrie Richards (KR)
  • Rob Seastrom (RS)
  • Alicia Trotman (AT)
  • Alison Wood (AW)
  • Matthew Wilder (MW)

ARIN Staff:

  • Michael Abejuela, (MA) General Counsel
  • John Curran, President & CEO
  • Sean Hopkins, (SH) Senior Policy Analyst
  • Richard Jimmerson, (COO) Chief Operating Officer
  • Lisa Liedel, (LL) Director - Registration Services
  • Therese Simcox, Sr. Executive Assistant, Scribe
  • John Sweeting, (CCO) Chief Customer Officer


  • Chris Tacit

1. Welcome

The Chair called the meeting to order at 4:02 p.m. ET. The presence of a quorum was noted. The Chair acknowledged regrets from Chris Tacit. He acknowledged that Rob Seastrom would need to leave the meeting at 4:30 p.m.

2. Agenda Review

The Chair reviewed the agenda with the Council and called for any comments. There were no comments.

3. Approval of the Minutes

(Exhibit A)

It was moved by OD, and seconded by JP, that:

“The ARIN Advisory Council approves the Minutes of 18 February 2021, as written.”

The Chair called for discussion. There were no comments.

The motion carried with no objections.

4. ARIN Board Adopted Policies

Provided as an informational item. The Chair stated that on March 4, 2021, via Special Meeting of the ARIN Board of Trustees, the Board adopted petitioned policy “ARIN Draft Policy ARIN 2020-2: Reinstatement of Organizations Removed from Waitlist by Implementation of ARIN-2019-16”. The President noted that the Board Draft Minutes are posted and provide an explanation. The President provided a brief overview of the history of the policy and the Board’s action. He stated that any AC member can reach out to him or the Board if there are any questions.

The CCO stated that out of the 17 organizations that qualified under policy 2020-2, 16 were issued their space, and the remaining one will be issued space within the next day. This makes the actions on the policy close to completion.

OD asked, as a formality, if there should be a record that this policy was implemented, handled, and expired. He believed there should be a reference in ARIN’s Number Resource Policy Manual (NRPM) because the Board enacted the policy; and, having it happen with no record is questionable.

The President replied that it will be reported upon at the next ARIN Public Policy Meeting (PPM). ARIN does not record transactions in the NRPM, but the fact that the policy was implemented will be recorded.

The Chair stated that SH posted a link in the NRPM change log. RS stated he was about to ask for that to be done, and that he was happy to see it.

5. Draft Policy ARIN-2020-6: Allowance for IPv4 Allocation “Swap” Transactions via 8.3 Specified Transfers and 8.4 Inter-RIR Transfers

OD stated that he was unable to make progress this month, but will get discussion moving again on the Public Policy Mailing List (PPML). He noted that no discussions have taken place there, nor any comments received from ARIN Counsel.

AT stated that there have been no changes to the policy. There have been no comments on the PPML. She will try to foster discussion on the PPML before the ARIN 47 PPM in April. The Chair thanked her and noted that feedback would be beneficial. The Chair reminded the AC that there are less than 30 days until the ARIN 47 PPM. He asked all AC members to try to foster discussion on their policies as well.

JP stated that no discussion has taken place on the policy since it was moved to recommended status. He stated that he would try to engage the community through the PPML.

AW stated that the policy shepherds submitted a rewrite to the authors, who have approved it. She noted it was cleanly written.

It was moved by AW, and seconded by OD, that:

“The ARIN Advisory Council accepts ‘ARIN-2020-9: Editorial Clean-up of NRPM Section 4 and Related Provisions’ as an editorial change.”

The Chair called for discussion. There were no comments.

The motion carried with all in favor, via roll call vote.

SH stated that as an editorial change, 2020-9 will undergo a 30-day review period which will still be underway when the AC meets again, and that a staff and legal review will be conducted. AW added that the policy resides on the new AC Wiki.

9. Draft Policy ARIN 2020-10: Removal of Requirement to Demonstrate Utilization of Reassignments and Reallocations for ISPs Seeking Initial Allocation from ARIN

AP stated that there have been no changes to the text. She stated that her intent is to present the policy at the ARIN 47 PPM to give it a wider audience for feedback. There were no further actions at this time.

10. Draft Policy ARIN 2020-11: Add Textual Description for the Number Resource Hierarchy Image in Section 2

AD stated that he was looking for feedback from the AC on this policy. He stated that feedback on the PPML was on the use of the terms ‘LIR’ and ‘ISP’. Weeks ago he had posted suggestions to the AC with regard to move from using the term ISP to using LIR in documents in this section and also in the graphic. He has not received feedback from AC. AD asked for feedback at this time, or on the AC’s list, and then he would update the text to move it forward. He stated that discussion with the community is needed, even if it was editorial.

OD stated that there is work in the NRPM Cleanup WG to move ISP definitions throughout the document to Section 2 – it has not made it into a proposal yet, but it is coming. He supported standardizing the term LIR, as it better reflects the modern-day reality of the Internet and Internet registries. He believed it was a good change, and that work on Section 2 will be sufficient as an interim measure as we clean up references to ISP and make them LIR.

KH agreed with all of OD’s comments.

MW stated that he did see AD’s request for feedback and, for clarity, asked about the term LIR being a broader category than ISPs within the region. He asked if there are LIRs in the ARIN region. AD explained that an NIR is a national registry, which ARIN does not have, but LIRs do exist in our region, and are not exclusively ISPs. MW stated that he would support the term LIR being used.

AP agreed that the term ISP is not a good descriptor. She stated that she understood in the RIPE region that LIRs have different capabilities than ISPs do in the ARIN region, and asked if this could this cause some confusion. AD read the definition of an LIR in ARIN’s NRPM to the AC. AP stated that her concern was that an LIR in RIPE can give out a direct assignment, and recipients can take the space and transfer it to someone else. If they receive a reassignment from an ISP that is an LIR, they may think that they have different rights to the space.

AD responded that ARIN’s document does not use that language at all. If we need to make it clear that an LIR does not issue provider-independent space, we can do that. It can be included in OD’s work as well. AP stated that she was uncertain that it is a real point of confusion, but may be a question for people who are operating space - customers could potentially be confused. AD believed that the odds seemed low, but acknowledged the odds were not zero.

OD stated that he believed that the risk of confusion is minimal. He explained that in the RIPE region, it is not LIR versus ISP that defines the differences. Either one can issue PI or PA, and an issuance as PI relinquishes control. In the ARIN region, it is all PA unless an organization does a section 8 transfer which is ARIN’s analog to RIPE’s PI issuances. OD stated that he believed it was all possible and a matter of distinction.

GG stated that he supported renaming the term to LIR to support terminology of other registries. He stated that he would like the community’s thoughts on the matter and suggested raising the topic at the ARIN 47 PPM.

JP agreed with GG, and stated it would be a perfect Table Topic at ARIN 47. JP also stated that OD’s observations are spot on. He stated the need to be sensitive to the community response from the Austin PPM, stating the need to be careful of how LIR is specified.

Noting the time, the Chair asked RS if he needed to make any comments at this time, or would rather that folks reach out to him offline. RS replied to reach out offline, and thanked the Chair. RS left the meeting at this time (4:28 pm ET).

11. Draft Policy ARIN 2021-1: ASN Clarifications to Sections 2, 8, and 10

AN stated that she posted the policy text 9 days ago to the PPML, with one comment received. She hopes for more comments. GG stated that some might consider it as the inclusion of ‘ASN’ and not as an editorial change. He noted that he did not believe that most folks would, but he could envision seeing someone considering it in that way.

12. ARIN-Prop-297: Special Use IPv4 Space Out of Scope for Purposes of Determining Waitlist Eligibility

KR stated that she and MW met after the last AC meeting and discussed the process and the policy. Her intention was to reach out to the author, RS, to discuss the lengthiness of the problem statement and work on paring it down. She asked the AC if she should remand the proposal to RS for feedback, or move to adopt it as draft policy, then work on it before the freeze date to be able to present it at the ARIN 47 PPM.

SH replied that as it is a proposal, the editing pen rests with the author. Moving the proposal to draft policy status provides the policy shepherds with the editing pen and does not stop them from working with author on it together. It is a matter of who has editorial hand only. SH further noted that it is unlikely that it would be discussed as a proposal at the PPM, but as a draft policy it will be worked into the ARIN 47 agenda.

KR stated that she would like to present it as draft policy at the PPM, and for she, MW, and RS to work on the problem statement to move it forward.

It was moved by KR, and seconded by OD, that:

“The ARIN Advisory Council accepts ‘Special Use IPv4 Space Out of Scope for Purposes of Determining Waitlist Eligibility’, as a Draft Policy.”

The Chair called for discussion. There were no further comments.

The motion carried with all in favor, via roll call vote.

13. ARIN AC Working Groups

  • AC WG NRPM Clean-up. JP stated that the WG has several work items that have been on hold until after 2020-9 - there has been no change. Additional Section 6 work is moving forward, and additional Section 2 entries are in discussion in the WG. He stated that the WG is happy to accept new ideas.

  • AC WG PDP Improvements. AP stated that the WG is awaiting staff feedback. The Chair stated that the staff and legal review is underway. The President stated that there is a ‘lessons learned’ as a result of the petition, and would not mind a meeting with the AC’s PDP Improvements Working Group in the near future to discuss some of the issues that have come up. If the WG is interested, a ’fireside’ chat would be beneficial. He noted that it became apparent that the PDP is an essential reference document and some rigor in its structure is imperative to ARIN’s success. AP agreed. The President tasked SH to schedule the meeting.

    OD stated that he would appreciate an invitation, if possible, as he has been involved with revisions to PDP in the past. The President welcomed him to participate, and asked the WG to read the staff memo that was provided to the Board, and to consider it and how it references the PDP as background for the chat. The Chair thanked the President.

  • AC WG Policy Experience Report (PER). AW stated the WG is on hold until after the ARIN 47 PPM, which will produce a new report.

14. Any Other Business

The Chair called for any other business items.

  • Changes in AC Member Affiliation or Employment. There were no changes reported.
  • AC Confluence/Wiki: Check-ins and Headshots. The Chair stated there are 6 headshot photos yet to be posted, and he would be emailing a reminder to those folks. He asked for them to please do so before next week for staff to use for the ARIN 47 PPM. He also stated that 5 members have not checked the finish check box upon checking in to the Wiki for the first time, and that needs to be done.
  • Sunset of ARIN AC MediaWiki - 31 March 2021. The Chair stated the sunset is approaching for the old AC MediaWiki, and to please review any pages for inclusions for migration to the new Wiki. If there are no major issues, please let SH know (with the date).
  • ARIN 47 PPM. The Chair reminded the AC to please register.
  • ARIN 47 Mock Presentations. The Chair stated that speaker orientation will be provided to AC members. Dry runs will be announced, but will take place March 25 at 11 am ET, and again at 1 pm ET. Dry runs will be conducted to test consistency on changing slides, member and background appearance, and camera and audio functionality.
  • Table Topics. The Chair asked the AC to please provide a list by next week. The Chair and Vice Chair will gather the list and provide it to staff.

15. Adjournment

The Chair entertained a motion to adjourn at 4:44 p.m. ET. GG moved to adjourn, seconded by KR. The meeting adjourned with no objections.


Here in the Vault, information is published in its final form and then not changed or updated. As a result, some content, specifically links to other pages and other references, may be out-of-date or no longer available.