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Meeting of the ARIN Advisory Council

Thursday, 03 March 2005
Teleconference

Minutes

Attendees:

  • Ron da Silva (RD), Chair
  • Alec Peterson (AP), Vice Chair
  • Paul Andersen (PA)
  • Marla Azinger (MA)
  • Leo Bicknell (LB)
  • Bill Darte (BD)
  • Mark Kosters (MK)
  • Lea Roberts (LR)
  • Robert Seastrom (RS)
  • John Sweeting (JS)
  • Stacy Taylor (ST)
  • Cathy Wittbrodt (CJW)
  • Suzanne Woolf (SW)

ARIN Staff:

  • Einar Bohlin (EB), Policy Analyst
  • Therese Colosi, Recording Secretary
  • Nate Davis (ND), Director of Operations
  • Richard Jimmerson (RJ), Director of External Relations
  • Ray Plzak (RP), President & CEO

ARIN Counsel:

  • Barrie VanBrackle, for Stephen Ryan

Apologies from:

  • Andrew Dul
  • Alex Rubenstein

1. Welcome

The Chair called the meeting to order at 4:05 p.m. EST. The presence of a quorum was noted.

2. Agenda Bashing

The Chair called for any comments.

3. Formal Approval of the Minutes of January 27, 2005

The Chair stated that the minutes were approved as written by unanimous consent.

4. Report from APNIC 19 Kyoto, Japan

SW and RS gave the AC a brief summary of their observations at the recent APNIC meeting. The Chair thanked them for their input.

5. Policy Proposal 2004-3 Global Addresses for Private Network Inter-Connectivity Update

The Chair acknowledged there had been discussion on the PPML. MA thanked BD for posting the language.

LB joined the call at this time (4:29 p.m. EST).

6. Policy Proposal 2004-8 Allocation of IPv6 Address Space by the Internet Assigned Numbers Authority (IANA) Policy to Regional Internet Registries Update

It was reiterated that LR was appointed as the leader of this discussion group and JS was the author. Other discussion group members were: BD, CJW, AD, RS, and SW.

The Chair requested JS be the primary point person for this proposal, and LR the secondary person. It was noted that they needed to incorporate any feedback from the APNIC meeting from SW and RS, and from the NRO EC document. The policy needed revision and reposting to the PPML for discussion before the next ARIN meeting in April.

RP stated he would send LR the text document from the NRO and a slide set as well.

7. Policy Proposal 2005-1 Provider Independent IPv6 Assignments for End-sites

LR stated that there had been no discussion on the PPML. The Chair appointed a secondary person for back up to LR, being CJW. The Chair requested that they instigate some discussion on the PPML.

LB asked that if this policy passed, is there precedent for the ARIN Board to withhold implementation of the policy pending input from IETF. RP answered that the ARIN Board could respond that they are aware of pending IETF input, and remand the policy back to the AC for further discussion until the Board is assured that it would not be countered by the IETF. He stated that the Board will also look at liability issues and cost.

PA joined the call at this time (4:41 p.m. EST).

8. Proposed Policy: Lame Delegations

Chair stated PA was lead and asked for volunteer for secondary person.

ST moved that:

"The ARIN Advisory Council supports moving policy proposal 'Lame Delegations' forward as written."

This was seconded by JS. Brief discussion ensued regarding revising it. ST accepted the friendly amendment to include IPv6.arpa in this proposal. JS seconded the friendly amendment. The Chair asked for a secondary volunteer with MA volunteering.

The motion carried unanimously via role call.

9. Proposed Policy: HD Ratio for IPv4 Allocations

BD moved that:

"The AC does not support policy proposal 'HD Ratio for IPv4 Allocations ', due to it being a duplicate of a previous proposal rejected by the community."

ST seconded. The motion carried unanimously via role call.

10. Proposed Policy: Directory Services

ST moved that:

"The ARIN Advisory Council supports moving policy proposal 'Directory Services' forward as written."

This was seconded by LR. MK and RP suggested considering the white paper on the general discussion of the problem. The Chair requested MK to be the secondary person with LB already being the primary point person. MK stated he felt that the white paper needed to be read first. Discussion ensued.

CJW left the call at this time (5:02 p.m. EST).

After discussing, it was the sense of the AC to vote on the current motion. The motion carried with 9 in favor and three against (MA, MK, and SW).

11. Discussion of IPv6 Policy

RP gave a brief background on this policy and stated that in his opinion, this policy and HD Ratio has resulted in the consumption of large amounts of address space manifested in Europe, and could be occurring in U.S. as the U.S. looks at using IPv6. RP suggested that the AC consider putting together policy proposals that take a look at the use of /48. He further stated that he would have EB put together a document showing large allocations in the RIPE NCC region for the AC's reference.

BD asked if there was room to present and discuss this issue at the upcoming ARIN meeting in Orlando. RP asked for a volunteer to present it, and BD volunteered. LR also volunteered to work with BD and RP. The Chair suggested that after the ARIN meeting, the AC take it up as an item to see if the policy needed modifying.

Barrie VanBrackle left the call at this time (5:11 p.m. EST).

12. Suspension of Paragraph 4.8 in the ARIN Number Resource Policy Manual (NRPM)

The Chair stated there is a policy specifically for the sub-region of ARIN, and ICANN will be recognizing AFRINIC as an RIR shortly. RP explained that ARIN needs to suspend this paragraph because technically the policy stays in effect until AFRINIC formal recognition as an RIR. This allows the AC to bring an action to the community in order to retire the policy.

BD moved that:

"The ARIN Advisory Council, noting that the ICANN Board of Directors intends to formally recognize AFRINIC as an RIR, hereby recommends suspending Paragraph 4.8 of the ARIN NRPM to be effective the date of the formal recognition of AFRINIC."

This was seconded by LB. The motion carried unanimously via role call.

13. Deactivation of AC's discussion groups

The Chair suggested this idea because he had not seen any discussion on the individual lists. He asked the AC how they felt about disbanding these groups, and having discussion flow on the AC list as a whole. He suggested instead using the group names in the subject line. All agreed.

LR left the call at this time (5:26 p.m. EST).

14. AC Travel to RIR meetings in 2005

The Chair went over the second lottery drawing stating that CJW was chosen as the second participant to travel to the AFRINIC III meeting, and that she will have until 45 days prior to that meeting to decide if she would be available to attend. He reminded the AC that MA was the first of the two chosen to attend AFRINIC III and that she had stated that she would be available.

He further stated that for travel to future ARIN meetings, the AC would have a choice to work with ARIN staff for travel, or use a budgeted amount provided by ARIN giving the AC member the freedom to make his/her own air travel arrangement using the budget. He stated that 45 days prior to ARIN meetings, ARIN staff would email the AC stating that they had one (1) week to advise ARIN staff of their choice. After the one week period ended, the AC would receive an email stating that those who had not responded automatically would be responsible for their own arrangements using the ARIN budgeted amount.

MK left the call at this time (5:32 p.m. EST).

15. Review of Open Action Item List

* JUL04-10 RJ, BD Defining Utilization

10/21/04 Update: No information could be provided at this time.

12/16/04 Update: BD stated that he had received an email with a document describing utilization from RJ. He reviewed it and also went through the ARIN policy document and found all references associated with utilization. BD felt the document did not clear up inconsistencies in the policy document, and that an expansion of RJ's document would be necessary. RJ stated that the document was a well vetted draft from among ARIN staff, but agreed with BD's summation. He stated that some inconsistencies could be cleared up, but a full review needs to be done to weed out incorrectly used terms. RJ was tasked with sending the document to the rest of the AC for further review.

1/27/05 Update: BD stated he and RJ published their documents to the AC's list for discussion and stated that one AC member had responded. He then suggested a common statement on what 'utilization' meant and referencing it to the Glossary seemed the most appropriate action. He stated that any other similar references that caused users frustration could be dealt with similarly. It was discussed that a possible action item in a BoF could be to let people know of this idea, gather other glossary items that were confusing, and ARIN staff could address them as well.

RP agreed with BD and stated that in terms of doing a sweep through the policy manual, careful editing to the document would be necessary. He agreed with BD on a BoF to keep this issue moving forward. RP also supported fixed definitions planted in the glossary; and suggested that the AC form a discussion group to review it. He further suggested there could be a joint task force of ARIN staff and AC members to work on it.

The Chair stated that he and BD would shepherd this initiative, with AP and CJW volunteering as part of the group.

3/3/05 Update: BD stated that everyone reviewed the NRPM and that he was still shepherding this issue. He stated that he would keep everyone posted on its progress. OPEN.

* JUL04-11 MSD/AC Glossary

10/21/04 Update: Ray stated it was in his hands and that he would review it and get back to AC.

12/16/04 Update: RP stated it was in the review process and there was a substantial effort to align definitions and identify sources for the definitions.

1/27/05 Update: RP stated that ARIN staff was still working on it. He stated that it should be ready by the next ARIN meeting.

3/3/05 Update: The Chair suggested closing this item at this time, and reopen it when the document is available from ARIN staff. CLOSED

* JUL04-13 AC ARIN's Directory Services

AC to have read Leo's post and discuss on line.

8/25/04 Update: All agreed that it should be considered at the AC's next meeting. The AC also agreed to add the subject to the ARIN meeting agenda, as an informational item. LB stated that he had not received feedback either way from a policy perspective. He perceived that as a positive, but noted that no one commented. He stated he would be happy to present the matter at the ARIN meeting. LB volunteered to write a policy proposal for the next ARIN meeting in 2005. RP suggested it could also be discussed in the Policy Proposal BOF at the upcoming ARIN meeting. BD volunteered to help LB if needed. The deadline for this action is Friday, September 3, 2004.

10/21/04 Update: Good discussion at ARIN XIV. LB felt he could do the policy proposal in the new format. MK requested working on it with him and LB accepted. The Chair requested the AC read the proposal and get feedback out so that it could be presented by the next ARIN meeting.

AD requested ARIN Counsel's advice on privacy laws. Discussion ensued with Counsel on privacy laws and their affect on crafting policy. MK suggested getting the idea behind the Directory Services set and submit to Counsel to find out if it is legally acceptable first. The Chair called for volunteers other than LB and MK, PA, JS, and AD volunteered.

12/16/04 Update: LB stated he did not finish his portion and would have it for the next meeting.

1/27/05: LB stated he had written up text to apply to the new policy manual, and sent it to ARIN staff for review. RP reviewed it as well. RP stated that LB did a great service for the region in bringing this issue to light. He stated that there have been issues regarding privacy and access to data for law enforcement agencies; and that ARIN was working internally on a White Paper that looks at this in total, and not just at the WHOIS issues. He stated that ARIN should be prepared to have a proposal on how to move forward on this issue. He felt this a worthwhile project, and explained that the white paper was simple, but a decent framework.

AD stated that with regard to law enforcement, it would be good to have access to laws from ARIN Counsel so the AC could use them to formulate a policy proposal. RP answered that ARIN Counsel had been in contact with various agencies and the State Attorneys Association, and has been working on this.

LB stated that he would send a draft to RP and the AC. He stated that people are expecting to discuss this at the ARIN meeting. RP said it would be on the Agenda as a discussion point and ARIN would publish a roadmap.

3/3/05 Update: The Chair suggested closing this item since it has entered the policy process. CLOSED.

* JUL04-14 MK Discussion of POC Verification

MK volunteered to champion the issue, and write up text for review before the August 22nd IRPEP deadline.

8/25/04 Update: MK said could not get it done in time for that deadline but would get it to the AC's list ASAP.

10/21/04 Update: MK stated he was still working on it.

12/16/04 Update: MK stated he is still working on it and would have it by mid-January. OPEN.

1/27/05 Update: MK stated that he sent this to the AC's list and needs to post it to the PPML to get a discussion started. RP and RD suggested MK work with LB to make decisions on procedural items, read each other's proposals, and comment back to the AC.

3/3/05 Update: MK unavailable to report. Chair recalled MK and LB were to work together. He suggested closing and moving this to the discussion of Directory Services policy. CLOSED

* JUL04-16 ARIN Staff AC Handbook

10/21/04 Update: RP provided the update explaining that the Board and AC will be provided a training program and manual in hardcopy and electronic form with regard to Roberts Rules of Order, discussions on role of the AC, etc. He stated that an outline has been drafted.

12/16/04 Update: RP stated it is being worked on.

1/27/05 Update: RP stated that ARIN staff and the ARIN Board were working on handbooks for the Board and AC with the final form presented today to RP. He stated it would be ready in the near future, and added that he had discussed training in 'Roberts Rules of Order' with the Chair of ARIN's Board. RP asked the AC Chair if he wanted to comment on what he had seen in his review of the draft handbook. The Chair stated that it was an attractive web interface with ARIN resources all in one location, and that legal information would also be added. He said it will be a welcome resource.

3/3/05 Update: The Chair suggested closing this item since the handbook is now on the AC's web page. The Chair requested the link be sent to the AC. CLOSED.

* OCT04-20 ND Real-time Publishing of Netblocks

AD suggested producing an analysis on how this would affect ARIN staff in cost and time. All agreed with the Chair requesting a few weeks in turnaround time. ND was tasked with this request.

12/16/04 Update: ND stated that clarification was needed and AP said he would discuss the issue with ND. OPEN

1/27/05 Update: ND and AP conferred after the AC's last meeting, and discussed what was needed on real time publishing of netblocks. ND stated that information is updated every 24 hours; and due to business and coordination items, that is as frequently as it can be done. Discussion ensued including the need for a valid maintainer object in the routing registry. The Chair requested further discussion take place on the AC's list on how to accomplish this and long-term plans for management of the database.

3/3/05 Update: The Chair stated that no discussion had taken place on the list, however this item is on ARIN Staff's roadmap and therefore suggested closing it. He suggested reopening the item when ARIN staff expressed the need for the AC's input. CLOSED.

* OCT04-21 SB, BD, SW, AD Input to Scott Bradner's drafting of ARIN's proposals for recommendation process.

Scott stated that input from the AC was welcome, and that this is a process by which ARIN could speak. BD, SW and AD volunteered to help Scott.

12/16/04 Update: RP stated he would contact Scott.

1/27/05 Update: RP stated there is no information at this time due to pressing commitments. RP stated that Scott is not an exclusive proxy, however RP will discuss with him.

3/3/05 Update: RP stated that he was working with SB. The Chair suggested closing this item until such time when the document was available. CLOSED

* JAN05-01 ARIN Counsel Review of Directory Services Proposal

LB requested that ARIN Counsel review the proposal he sent with respect to privacy concerns. RP stated that he would forward the proposal for legal review when it was ready.

3/3/05 Update: The Chair stated that now that this issue is in policy review, this item be closed. CLOSED.

* JAN05-02 AC Chat at ARIN Meetings

ND asked if there was a need for the AC to have interactive chat capability at the next ARIN meeting. The response was favorable. MK requested using Jabber instead of IRC. ND made a note of this request. BD suggested that substantive items be discussed in full and not on chat. MK stated Jabber is secure to the server and easy to set up a conference. The Chair stated that the AC should discuss IRC vs. Jabber on their list.

3/3/05 Update: The Chair suggested the AC use IRC since no discussion has taken place. RS suggested SSH keys and a local IRC server. The Chair requested RS send a request to the AC list for participation, and work with ND. CLOSED.

16. Any Other Business

None.

17. Adjournment

The meeting was adjourned at 5:45 p.m. EST by unanimous consent.