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Meeting of the ARIN Advisory Council

Thursday, 27 January 2005
Teleconference

Minutes

Attendees:

  • Ron da Silva (RD), Chair
  • Alec Peterson (AP), Vice Chair
  • Paul Andersen (PA)
  • Marla Azinger (MA)
  • Leo Bicknell (LB)
  • Bill Darte (BD)
  • Andrew Dul (AD)
  • Mark Kosters (MK)
  • Lea Roberts (LR)
  • Alex Rubenstein (AR)
  • Robert Seastrom (RS)
  • John Sweeting (JS)
  • Cathy Wittbrodt (CJW)
  • Suzanne Woolf (SW)

ARIN Staff:

  • Einar Bohlin (EB), Policy Analyst
  • Therese Colosi, Recording Secretary
  • Nate Davis (ND), Director of Operations
  • Richard Jimmerson (RJ), Director of External Relations
  • Ray Plzak (RP), President & CEO

ARIN Counsel:

  • Barrie VanBrackle, for Stephen Ryan

Apologies:

  • Stacy Taylor

1. Welcome

The Chair called the meeting to order at 4:04 p.m. EST. The presence of a quorum was noted. The Chair welcomed everyone to the AC's first meeting of the year and stated that he was honored to be the new Chair. He also expressed his appreciation to Alec Peterson, outgoing Chair, for Alec's support and service to the AC.

2. Agenda Bashing

The Chair called for any comments on the agenda. LR requested adding discussion of the schedule of AC calls for 2005. The Chair added it under Any Other Business.

3. Appointment of Vice Chair

The Chair appointed AP as Vice Chair. AP accepted the appointment.

4. Formal Approval of the Minutes of December 16, 2004

The Chair asked for any objections. Hearing no objections, the Chair deemed the minutes approved by unanimous consent.

5. Last Call on Policy Proposal 2004-5: Address Space for Multiple Discrete Networks

AP moved that:

"The ARIN Advisory Council, based on comments from stakeholders expressed either at the ARIN XIV Public Policy meeting or on the ARIN public policy mailing list, having reviewed the comments collected during the Last Call period, and noting that the Internet Resource Policy Evaluation Process has been followed, recommends that the ARIN Board of Trustees adopt Policy Proposal 2004-5."

This was seconded by MK. The Chair asked who was responsible for shepherding this proposal through last call, with AD stating that it was he. The motion carried unanimously via roll call.

6. Policy Proposal 2004-3 Global Addresses for Private Network Inter-Connectivity

BD presented an update stating that he and MA sent the final language to ARIN staff for posting, after the last AC meeting. EB stated that he did post the language and updated it to the archive website.

It was stated that this proposal would be on the agenda at ARIN XV in April, and that BD and MA would continue to shepherd this proposal until then. RP suggested generating more discussion on the PPML 30 days prior to ARIN XV. All agreed.

7. 2004-8 Allocation of IPv6 Address Space by the Internet Assigned Numbers Authority (IANA) Policy to Regional Internet Registries

RP brought this item to other RIRs, stating it would also be discussed in Kyoto at APNIC 19 in February. He further stated that the two AC members attending APNIC will gather information and present an update to the AC upon their return.

The Chair recapped stating that SW and RS would get feedback from the APNIC meeting on this subject, and that RP would follow up with the AC after discussing the issue of forming an editorial team to include some volunteer members of the AC with the NRO.

The Chair asked for any further comments. There were no further comments.

8. Discussion of new proposed policy: PI assignments for v6

LR updated the AC stating that she worked with author and text was emailed this week to the AC. She stated it is now focused on the issue of direct assignments of v6 addresses. She stated that it is ready to move forward once the AC has reviewed it.

The Chair asked for any further questions. All agreed that the author should send the proposal directly to ARIN for assignment of a policy number and for posting to the PPML. LR stated that they may want to change the title to "PI IPv6 assignments" but that this would not be a substantive change. The Chair requested any further comments from the AC to be posted to LR by the end of this week.

9. AC Travel to RIR meetings in 2005

The Chair stated that there were two empty slots in the lottery for the 2nd AFRINIC meeting to be held in Cairo. He suggested MA attend the meeting since she was the odd person out in the last lottery, and that the remaining slot would be determined in another lottery. It was agreed that all 15 AC member's names would be drawn and the member picked could pass or accept.

The Chair further stated that if anyone wanted to trade their current slots from the last lottery, to do it off line but let ARIN staff know immediately. All agreed. The Chair then asked if anyone wanted to change their current slots. There were no changes.

10. ARIN Travel Expense Reimbursement

Chair reminded everyone to familiarize themselves with the travel policy and to coordinate with ARIN staff in a timely manner, via email and/or phone, with their travel arrangements. All agreed.

11. AC Role at RIR Meetings

Chair stated that there were three main 3 points for AC members to keep in mind while attending other RIR's meetings:

  • There would be a 'pre-RIR meeting' discussion of key items that are on the RIR's agenda;
  • AC members need to observe the other RIR's practices of how they run a meeting, and how they form policies; and,
  • AC members need to network with WGs and SIG Chairs of the other RIRs in order to build relationships with them.

BD also suggested that the AC look at other RIR's websites and join lists to become familiar with the RIR's discussions. The Chair asked if there were any further comments. There were no further comments.

4:37 p.m. EST John Sweeting and Leo Bicknell joined the call at this time.

5:00 p.m. EST CJW stated she needed to leave the call.

12. Review Open Action Item List

JUL04#10 RJ, BD
Defining Utilization.
10/21/04 Update: No information could be provided at this time.

12/16/04 Update: BD stated that he had received an email with a document describing utilization from RJ. He reviewed it and also went through the ARIN policy document and found all references associated with utilization. BD felt the document did not clear up inconsistencies in the policy document, and that an expansion of RJ's document would be necessary. RJ stated that the document was a well vetted draft from among ARIN staff, but agreed with BD's summation. He stated that some inconsistencies could be cleared up, but a full review needs to be done to weed out incorrectly used terms. RJ was tasked with sending the document to the rest of the AC for further review.

1/27/05 Update: BD stated he and RJ published their documents to the AC's list for discussion and stated that one AC member had responded. He then suggested a common statement on what 'utilization' meant and referencing it to the Glossary seemed the most appropriate action. He stated that any other similar references that caused users frustration could be dealt with similarly. It was discussed that a possible action item in a BoF could be to let people know of this idea, gather other glossary items that were confusing, and ARIN staff could address them as well.

RP agreed with BD and stated that in terms of doing a sweep through the policy manual, careful editing to the document would be necessary. He agreed with BD on a BoF to keep this issue moving forward. RP also supported fixed definitions planted in the glossary; and suggested that the AC form a discussion group to review it. He further suggested there could be a joint task force of ARIN staff and AC members to work on it.

The Chair stated that he and BD would shepherd this initiative, with AP and CJW volunteering as part of the group. OPEN.

5:00 p.m. EST, LR stated she needed to leave the call at this time.

JUL04#11 MSD/AC
Glossary.
10/21/04 Update: Ray stated it was in his hands and that he would review it and get back to AC.

12/16/04 Update: RP stated it was in the review process and there was a substantial effort to align definitions and identify sources for the definitions. OPEN.

1/27/05 Update: RP stated that ARIN staff was still working on it. He stated that it should be ready by the next ARIN meeting.

JUL04#13 AC
ARIN's Directory Services. AC to have read Leo's post and discuss on line.

8/25/04 Update: All agreed that it should be considered at the AC's next meeting. The AC also agreed to add the subject to the ARIN meeting agenda, as an informational item. LB stated that he had not received feedback either way from a policy perspective. He perceived that as a positive, but noted that no one commented. He stated he would be happy to present the matter at the ARIN meeting. LB volunteered to write a policy proposal for the next ARIN meeting in 2005. RP suggested it could also be discussed in the Policy Proposal BOF at the upcoming ARIN meeting. BD volunteered to help LB if needed. The deadline for this action is Friday, September 3, 2004.

10/21/04 Update: Good discussion at ARIN XIV. LB felt he could do the policy proposal in the new format. MK requested working on it with him and LB accepted. The Chair requested the AC read the proposal and get feedback out so that it could be presented by the next ARIN meeting.

AD requested ARIN Counsel's advice on privacy laws. Discussion ensued with Counsel on privacy laws and their affect on crafting policy. MK suggested getting the idea behind the Directory Services set and submit to counsel to find out if it is legally acceptable first. The Chair called for volunteers other than LB and MK, PA, JS, and AD volunteered.

12/16/04 Update: LB stated he did not finish his portion and would have it for the next meeting.

1/27/05: LB stated he had written up text to apply to the new policy manual, and sent it to ARIN staff for review. RP reviewed it as well. RP stated that LB did a great service for the region in bringing this issue to light. He stated that there have been issues regarding privacy and access to data for law enforcement agencies; and that ARIN was working internally on a White Paper that looks at this in total, and not just at the WHOIS issues. He stated that ARIN should be prepared to have a proposal on how to move forward on this issue. He felt this a worthwhile project, and explained that the white paper was simple, but a decent framework.

AD stated that with regard to law enforcement, it would be good to have access to laws from ARIN Counsel so the AC could use them to formulate a policy proposal. RP answered that ARIN Counsel had been in contact with various agencies and the State Attorneys Association, and has been working on this.

LB stated that he would send a draft to RP and the AC. He stated that people are expecting to discuss this at the ARIN meeting. RP said it would be on the Agenda as a discussion point and ARIN would publish a roadmap. OPEN.

5:08 pm EST, CJW left due to other commitments.

JUL04#14 MK
Discussion of POC verification. MK volunteered to champion the issue, and write up text for review before the August 22nd IRPEP deadline.

8/25/04 Update: MK said could not get it done in time for that deadline but would get it to the AC's list ASAP.

10/21/04 Update: MK stated he was still working on it.

12/16/04 Update: MK stated he is still working on it and would have it by mid-January. OPEN.

1/27/05 Update: MK stated that he sent this to the AC's list and needs to post it to the PPML to get a discussion started. RP and RD suggested MK work with LB to make decisions on procedural items, read each other's proposals, and comment back to the AC.

5:22 pm EST, ARIN Counsel needed to leave the call.

JUL04#16 ARIN Staff
Information in presentation form or document form on conduct guidelines regarding legal issues.

10/21/04 Update: RP provided the update explaining that the Board and AC will be provided a training program and manual in hardcopy and electronic form with regard to Roberts Rules of Order, discussions on role of the AC, etc. He stated that an outline has been drafted.

12/16/04 Update: RP stated it is being worked on.

1/27/05 Update: RP stated that ARIN staff and the ARIN Board were working on handbooks for the Board and AC with the final form presented today to RP. He stated it would be ready in the near future, and added that he had discussed training in 'Roberts Rules of Order' with the Chair of ARIN's Board. RP asked the AC Chair if he wanted to comment on what he had seen in his review of the draft handbook. The Chair stated that it was an attractive web interface with ARIN resources all in one location, and that legal information would also be added. He said it will be a welcome resource. OPEN.

The Chair called for any other comments. LB requested that ARIN Counsel review the proposal he sent with respect to privacy concerns. RP stated that he would forward the proposal for legal review when it was ready.

5:27 p.m. EST, PA needed to leave call.

OCT04#20 ND
Real-time Publishing of Netblocks. AD suggested producing an analysis on how this would affect ARIN staff in cost and time. All agreed with the Chair requesting a few weeks in turnaround time. ND was tasked with this request.

12/16/04 Update: ND stated that clarification was needed and AP said he would discuss the issue with ND. OPEN

1/27/05 Update: ND and AP conferred after the AC's last meeting, and discussed what was needed on real time publishing of netblocks. ND stated that information is updated every 24 hours; and due to business and coordination items, that is as frequently as it can be done. Discussion ensued including the need for a valid maintainer object in the routing registry. The Chair requested further discussion take place on the AC's list on how to accomplish this and long-term plans for management of the database. OPEN.

OCT04#21 SB, BD, SW, AD
Input to Scott Bradner's drafting of ARIN's proposals for recommendation process. Scott stated that input from the AC was welcome, and that this is a process by which ARIN could speak. BD, SW and AD volunteered to help Scott.

12/16/04 Update: RP stated he would contact Scott.

1/27/05 Update: RP stated there is no information at this time due to pressing commitments. RP stated that Scott is not an exclusive proxy, however RP will discuss with him. OPEN.

OCT04#22 Private Networks Discussion Group.
RD asked if the AC should act on the issue of any organization consuming all RFC 1918 space, what should be done in case of this situation. The Chair replied that someone on private networks discussion group will forward this issue to the list.

12/16/04 Update: BD discussed the issue with others off line prior to the last ARIN meeting, and also during the ARIN meeting. BD stated that it came down to the fact that if 1918 space was exhausted and one needed more, one would need to request a globally unique address from ARIN. RP stated that this was in fact happening. The Chair asked SW to find out what happened with the submission to IETF.

1/27/05 Update: SW posted information to the PPML, never saw the draft and has not heard back. The Chair suggested closing the item at this time. There were no objections. CLOSED.

13. Any Other Business

A. Schedule of Regularly Scheduled AC teleconferences:
The Chair stated the current schedule was every other month and polled the AC for their preference. BD suggested penciling in every month with the Chair requesting action items. If there are no items, then default to every other month on the third Thursday of each month as it is currently done. RP then stated that ARIN staff would look at the policy process and ARIN meeting schedules and would build a proposed schedule based on those events.

The Chair called for any additional comments. ND asked if there was a need for the AC to have interactive chat capability at the next ARIN meeting. The response was favorable. MK requested using Jabber instead of IRC. ND made a note of this request. BD suggested that substantive items be discussed in full and not on chat. MK stated Jabber is secure to the server and easy to set up a conference. The Chair stated that the AC should discuss IRC vs. Jabber on their list.

BD requested an update on the issue of improper comments directed at speakers during public microphone sessions at ARIN meetings. RP stated that the ARIN Board discussed this issue and will ensure it does not happen again.

BD also requested an update on AC representation of policy proposal items at ARIN meetings. RP stated that he reviewed items from ARIN XIV and ARIN V and discussed them with ARIN Member Services. They are working on a new way of making the process flow more smoothly.

The Chair called for any further items. There were no items.

14. Adjournment

The meeting was adjourned by general consent at 5:53 p.m. EST by the Chair.